Former interim National Chairman of the All Progressives Congress (APC)
and former governor of Osun State, Chief Bisi Akande, reiterates his
position on the crisis of confidence rocking his party as regards the
leadership of the National Assembly in this interview with KATE ANI.
Excerpts:
Why did you say that through the crisis in the National Assembly, the North is attacking Yorubaland?
I didn’t say so; I said some Yoruba people are saying so. Go and read the statement I wrote.
How did you know they were saying so?
They called and told me.
By not supporting Senator Bukola Saraki, are you saying he is not a Yoruba man?
I support Saraki absolutely but I don’t support rebellion.
Why do you think he is being rebellious?
The party took a position. They did a primary and somebody won. Anybody
who goes against the democratic position of the party is rebellious.
Don’t you see it as a rebellion? I know that Nigerians don’t know
discipline anymore; everybody does things they way they like. You didn’t
get there by yourself but by the grace of your party. That is why you
can go to the party to say that I want to be this and they would say oh,
they are many of you who want to too, come and do election. And
somebody won and somebody stood by that person. Once you go against that
party, you are committing rebellion. It is an act of indiscipline. I
support all of them, they are my colleagues, but I don’t support
indiscipline. Maybe you don’t understand what discipline is. In your
place of work, if they ask you to do something and you did it the other
way, it is indiscipline. They would sack you. You join a party because
you want to abide by its rules and regulations. You can’t say that you
are going to be bound by another man’s regulation outside. I am talking
about rebellion; you are talking about who are funding them. If you
commit a coup d’etat, you are to be punished by death, but then you say
oh, it is not an American that gave you money to do it. Is it important
who gave you money to do rebellion? Rebellion is a criminal act.
Indiscipline killed PDP [Peoples Democratic Party] and we don’t want
rebellion to kill our party. Rebellion is the height of indiscipline.
Nigerians were taken aback by the statement you issued…
(cuts…) It is because I don’t like indiscipline. They are all my
colleagues. I want them to become president or anything they want to
become, but I don’t want them to get there through indiscipline or by
being rebellious. That is all I am saying for everybody to understand
but in Nigeria, everybody claps for all arguments, no matter how
invalid. My argument is simple: get into whatever position by
discipline. Indiscipline was the reason Nigerians rejected PDP, and we
don’t want it in our party. The cardinal thing I emphasised in that
statement was discipline, obedience to your party. It is our party that
made Saraki. He cannot disobey our party.
What is the way forward now, what do you think your party must do to restore normalcy?
They should be disciplined. They should obey the party. That is all. I
don’t know about APC, but I won’t cringe under indiscipline. If the
party likes, they can cringe under indiscipline, but Bisi Akande will
never cringe under indiscipline.
Do you see Saraki and Yakubu Dogara as traitors?
Saraki and Dogara are from the old PDP. They defected to our party and
they are the leaders of this rebellion. It is indiscipline that killed
their old party. Can they deny that? Are they not from the old PDP? We
had formed and registered our party many months before they came. It
doesn’t mean that they should do what they did in PDP to us. We will
reject it. The way forward is for them to be disciplined.
If you see Saraki and Dogara tomorrow, what would you tell them?
I would call them undisciplined members of my party. That is what I would tell them to their faces.
How do you think they can be disciplined?
Discipline is an act of the mind. I am a disciplined man and I have led
that party before. It was through discipline that we brought that party
up, not with money. We brought the party together out of difficult
situations. Nobody had money then. We did it and the whole country
accepted it. If anybody wants to bring indiscipline into it, those of us
who are disciplined will say no. Indiscipline will kill Nigerians if we
are not careful. That is why we were elected. On the threshold of a
government of change, somebody started a rebellion. It is to make change
impossible.
Are you satisfied with the way President Muhammadu Buhari has handled the matter so far?
I don’t know the way he has been handling it, but he is a disciplined
man. That is why I support him. He submitted himself to a primary, which
was done to the happiness of everybody in this country and that was why
we took him as our candidate. He is a disciplined person, whichever way
he handles it, I won’t query him because I know him to be disciplined.
But the president said he could work with anyone, why is the APC still insisting that they don’t want Saraki and Dogara?
He didn’t say that. He said anybody who gets anywhere could have done it
the way the party wanted. That is what he said. Go and read it again.
He said constitutionally, they might have won, but it would have been
better for them to have won the way the party said; that it would be
better they won it as disciplined people. That is what Buhari was
saying. You cut off that part of it, and only hold on to him saying he
can work with anybody. Are you trying to say that he can work with
madmen if possible? What Saraki and Dogara committed against APC is a
rebellion. We had founded APC before they came to our party. You won’t
see any ACN, CPC or ANPP member of the APC committing a rebellion, but
PDP was known for indiscipline and it is only anybody who has the blood
of the PDP in him in our party that can commit an act of indiscipline.
They committed a rebellion against the party that put them in the
National Assembly. So, their primary duty and loyalty should be to the
APC that put them in office, not to now begin to argue that they entered
the position constitutionally. There is what we call spirit of the
constitution. These people never believed in change. That is the essence
of what I wrote in my statement. The only reason I put some flesh to it
doesn’t change my attitude; that I don’t want people who are
undisciplined to be in my political party.
Nigerians voted for change but what is being witnessed in the National
Assembly is almost a replica of what was seen during PDP’s years in
government. As one of the founding leaders of the APC, are you
disappointed?
I am very disappointed and embarrassed about it all. There will be more
of that action if they remain undisciplined. Any member of APC is
expected to be disciplined.
Some people have called for the removal of the national chairman, John
Odigie-Oyegun, because those people you described as rebels seem more
powerful than him. Do you think Odigie-Oyegun is doing enough to bring
the situation under control?
I will not clamour for anybody to be removed. Oyegun is having a
rebellion on his hands. He is mature enough to handle it. The party will
give him time to handle it. But if he allows it to protract, he may
have a crisis on his hands. As a matter of fact, he already has a crisis
on his hands. Oyegun is not the cause of the rebellion, I think –
unless he is part of it. I don’t know. He is my friend. I was one of the
people who fought for Oyegun to become the national chairman to succeed
me. When people are confused, they will ask for anything. People are
calling for his head because he has a crisis on his hands.
What advice would you give northern leaders to give their
representatives at the National Assembly, who are the arrowheads in the
crisis in the National Assembly?
If they want change, they must reject undisciplined members. They must recall their undisciplined members.
The APC governors are coming on to be as powerful as the PDP governors
in their party. Would they not constitute a problem for the party in
future, now that they are forming a cabal of governors?
Give me an example of an APC governor who is more powerful than the
party so that I can answer your question. They are all obedient to the
party. I don’t know what you see outside, but inside, all APC governors
are disciplined. None of them is rebellious yet.
You are a father to all in Yorubaland, where do you want to see the Yoruba race in the next 20 years?
I am a father to all in Nigeria. In 20 years, I want Nigeria to be like
Europe, America, all developed places in Asia and all over the world.
Everyone seems to be heaping blame on Senator Bola Tinubu, saying that
he is trying to impose leaders on the National Assembly, why?
You know that in Nigeria, all agents of change are in trouble. Many
people don’t think in this country. Tinubu is a classical thinker. When
he introduced change, everyone didn’t understand him and they made a lot
of noise. To answer your question, I don’t know why they are blaming
him. It is from his brain that the idea of merging came. He is a strong
agent of change. He worked for it, funded it and did everything to see
change come. It is envy, nothing else. All brilliant people are hated,
particularly in a developing society like Nigeria, where the only thing
that everybody knows is corruption. If you hear them scream Tinubu, ask
them about the fault of this man. They won’t tell you a reason. They
might say that he is becoming too powerful but if you are becoming too
big in your work, what can anybody do about that? They can only hate and
envy you. Tinubu is hated by lazy minds.
Does President Buhari’s delay in appointing ministers have to do with
the level of his comfort at present with the National Assembly?
Oh, no. How can that be? Jonathan succeeded himself as president in
2008. He was president for about two years before he contested election
in 2011. When he became president again, he succeeded himself. In six
weeks, he never appointed a minister. Why are Nigerians impatient?
Because the majority of Nigerians are corrupt, they want ministers they
would run to, to steal money. Why are they impatient? What has Buhari
done wrong? He came in just a month ago. He succeeded a rotten
government. Jonathan who succeeded himself never appointed ministers for
the first six weeks of coming to office. He succeeded himself. But
Buhari succeeded a rotten government. Nigeria is in decay. Look at the
issue of NNPC. They realised eight point something trillion naira within
a period but they paid into the treasury, only four point something
trillion naira. The remaining, they never accounted for. Is that not a
rot that can delay appointment of ministers? What makes appointment of
ministers more important than looking into what happened in that sector?
If Jonathan, who succeeded himself, was unable to appoint ministers
within the first six weeks of coming into office, what is wrong if
President Buhari waits for six months to appoint his men in a rotten and
decadent arrangement? He needs time and I support that he take his
time.
The PDP released a statement that Nigerians should pray for President Buhari as he seems overwhelmed by all things at hand?
I don’t want to comment on whatever PDP says because that party is in
trouble and they can’t say anything sensible anymore. They threw Nigeria
into this mess and it is this mess that is holding the hands of
President Buhari from appointing ministers.
Nigerians are saying they are yet to see the change President Buhari promised, what is going on?
Nigerians don’t have a magician as president. They have a human in
Buhari as president. Since Buhari became president, he has been working
on security. He has been going to all places, including neighbouring
countries, to solicit for their support. He went to South Africa and
rallied all African leaders to support our cause. He is going to
America, and he has got the promise of England, all within one month. He
has moved the operation of the military to another place. He is not a
magician. He is still trying to clear the rot that the PDP’s
administration left behind. In the area of economy, you must make the
money before thinking of how to spend it. He has set up a committee to
look into the operation of NNPC and it will take some time before you
can make enough money to start doing other jobs. There are orders in
what you expect a president to do but because numerous people in the
country do not understand these orders, it is your duty in the press to
help us teach them that there are orders and you have to do one before
you can solve the other.
What have been the responses from your party men, especially Senator Tinubu, since you issued that statement?
I have not seen Tinubu but friends have been calling me and were happy
that they saw someone who can come out to confront the truth. Some may
be afraid of voicing their opinions because they see those people as
rich and powerful, but Bisi Akande will talk. I will talk. At my age, I
shouldn’t be afraid to die. I must be ready to talk. But the only thing I
don’t tolerate is indiscipline. I want everybody to go high in life.
Where I can’t reach, I want all of them to reach, but I don’t want them
to do it by rebellion. I want them to do it with decorum and discipline.
It is fraudulent to use the platform of a party to become a senator and
thereafter say that the party is unimportant; that there is a
regulation in the Senate or House of Representatives, which commands
what you should do. That is fraudulent and I don’t like fraud in any
form. Tell them.
What do you think Saraki and Dogara should do, apologise?
I don’t know. He (Saraki) should learn to be disciplined. He is old
enough to know what discipline means. It is an act of the mind. Saraki
knows very well that I am much disciplined and he should learn how to be
disciplined. He should not short-change his association.
Dogara’s deputy is your boy in Osun State…
An undisciplined person is not my boy. I know [Yusuf Sulaimon] Lasun but
now that he has become undisciplined, he is on his own. Any of my
children that is not disciplined, I disown them. I thank God that I
don’t have many and they are all disciplined.
What about Ike Ekweremadu, a PDP man being Saraki’s deputy?
Imagine! How can you want a position and you sell one? Okay, there are
two of them, take one to assist my people, and so they did.
What is the implication of that?
There is no secret in our party anymore because anything we want the
National Assembly to do for us would pass through him. He will preside
over it and it makes our majority useless. It is an attempt to destroy
the party but we will resist that.
What is your take on Osun State governor, Rauf Aregbesola’s inability to pay civil servants their salaries?
Well, it is unfortunate that Osun State – don’t say Aregbesola;
Aregbesola owes nobody any money – owes workers salaries. This happened
because the source of income dried up. In a bank, the workers make the
money with which they are paid. In the newspaper industry, the workers
make the money with which they get paid. In government, because
government functions as a social liability, it is very difficult to make
the workers make the money with which they will be paid. In Nigeria,
most states are not viable. Osun is one of the states that are not
viable in the country. I have been a governor there before, so, I know
that the state is not viable. So, because Osun State is not viable, it
has to wait for federal allocation before it can do anything. If there
is no federal allocation from tomorrow, the whole place would close
down; there won’t be workers, a governor, commissioners or anything.
Osun exists at the mercy of federal funding and the moment money refuses
to come from the federation, the state would be in trouble. It is not
Osun alone; some states owe 11 months, three months and so on. It varies
from state to state. There is nothing the governor can do about it.
Unless there is money, there won’t be payment.
But workers are dying. There have been reported cases of workers turning into corporate beggars or even starving to death?
Dying? If you are a farmer – you employ yourself – and due to lack of
rain, you can’t produce in a year, and you can’t tolerate it and you
don’t have support from anywhere, you will die? The employer won’t kill
himself. What can the employer do? Osun State is the employer, not
Aregbesola. He is merely symbolic because he is the governor. Aregbesola
came at a wrong time when the state was soaking in debt. He was trying
to rearrange the debt because he inherited a big debt and it is a debt
from the bank. You know, if you borrow N100 from the bank and you have
to pay 20 per cent, it means, in five years, it becomes N200. I think he
inherited a debt of about N18 billion, if I can remember. I heard it
was money intended to build a stadium and he rearranged it with the
bank. The rearrangement means saying, ‘okay, don’t let me pay
immediately, help me push it forward a bit and when the day comes, they
would start taking their money.’ He inherited the debt and there is
nothing he can do about it. He won’t run into the bush. When I was
governor, people asked me to come and borrow N300 million to repair a
water project. I said no; that I couldn’t borrow such money. I repaired
the water project with less than a million naira and water was flowing.
Senator Ben Murray Bruce donated his wardrobe allowance to some Osun
workers to alleviate their suffering but Governor Aregbesola was not
happy with it…
Ben [Murray] Bruce was being mischievous. He was at the centre of the
PDP which collapsed in debt. He was inside the rot of PDP that collapsed
in a mess. How much is his wardrobe allowance that he is donating? To
whom did he give it?
